§284ΣΩ.
τί δέ,
ἔφη,
ὦ Κτήσιππε,
ὁ Εὐθύδημος,
ἦ δοκεῖ σοι οἷόν τʼ εἶναι ψεύδεσθαι;
SOCRATES: "'And what of it, Ctesippus?' said Euthydemus.
—
νὴ Δία,
ἔφη,
εἰ μὴ μαίνομαί γε. —
πότερον λέγοντα τὸ πρᾶγμα περὶ οὗ ἂν ὁ λόγος ᾖ, ἢ μὴ λέγοντα; —
λέγοντα,
ἔφη. —
οὐκοῦν εἴπερ λέγει αὐτό, οὐκ ἄλλο λέγει τῶν ὄντων ἢ ἐκεῖνο ὅπερ λέγει; —
πῶς γὰρ ἄν; ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος. —
ἓν μὴν κἀκεῖνό γʼ ἐστὶν τῶν ὄντων, ὃ λέγει, χωρὶς τῶν ἄλλων. —
πάνυ γε. —
οὐκοῦν ὁ ἐκεῖνο λέγων τὸ ὄν,
ἔφη,
λέγει; —
ναί. —
ἀλλὰ μὴν ὅ γε τὸ ὂν λέγων καὶ τὰ ὄντα τἀληθῆ λέγει· ὥστε ὁ Διονυσόδωρος, εἴπερ λέγει τὰ ὄντα, λέγει τἀληθῆ καὶ οὐδὲν κατὰ σοῦ ψεύδεται. ναί,
ἔφη· ἀλλʼ ὁ ταῦτα λέγων,
ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος,
ὦ Εὐθύδημε, οὐ τὰ ὄντα λέγει. καὶ ὁ Εὐθύδημος,
τὰ δὲ μὴ ὄντα,
ἔφη,
ἄλλο τι ἢ οὐκ ἔστιν; —
οὐκ ἔστιν. —
ἄλλο τι οὖν οὐδαμοῦ τά γε μὴ ὄντα ὄντα ἐστίν; —
οὐδαμοῦ. —
ἔστιν οὖν ὅπως περὶ ταῦτα, τὰ μὴ ὄντα, πράξειεν ἄν τίς τι, ὥστʼ ἐκεῖνα ποιήσειεν ἂν καὶ ὁστισοῦν τὰ μηδαμοῦ ὄντα; —
οὐκ ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ,
ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος.
'Do you think it is possible to lie?' — 'Yes, by Zeus,' he said, 'unless indeed I am mad.' — 'By speaking of the thing which the speech is about, or by not speaking of it?' — 'By speaking,' he said. — 'Therefore, if indeed he speaks it, does he speak any other of existing things than that which he speaks?' — 'How indeed could it be otherwise?' said Ctesippus. — 'But surely that which he speaks is also one of existing things, apart from the others.' — 'Certainly.' — 'Therefore, the one speaking that speaks that which exists?' he said. — 'Yes.' — 'But surely the one who speaks that which exists and existing things speaks the truth; so that Dionysodorus, if indeed he speaks existing things, speaks the truth and does not lie about you at all.' 'Yes,' he said; 'but the one saying these things, Euthydemus,' said Ctesippus, 'does not speak of existing things.' And Euthydemus said: 'And things that do not exist, are they anything other than not existing?' — 'They are not.' — 'Is it not the case then that things that do not exist are nowhere existing?' — 'Nowhere.' — 'Is there then any way that anyone could do anything about these things, things that do not exist, so that anyone at all could make them, things that exist nowhere?' — 'It does not seem so to me,' said Ctesippus. — 'What then?
—
τί οὖν; οἱ ῥήτορες ὅταν λέγωσιν ἐν τῷ δήμῳ, οὐδὲν πράττουσι; —
πράττουσι μὲν οὖν,
ἦ δʼ ὅς. —
οὐκοῦν εἴπερ πράττουσι, καὶ ποιοῦσι; —
ναί. —
τὸ λέγειν ἄρα πράττειν τε καὶ ποιεῖν ἐστιν; —ὡμολόγησεν. —
οὐκ ἄρα τά γε μὴ ὄντʼ,
ἔφη,
λέγει οὐδείς—ποιοῖ γὰρ ἂν ἤδη τί· σὺ δὲ ὡμολόγηκας τὸ μὴ ὂν μὴ οἷόν τʼ εἶναι μηδένα ποιεῖν— ὥστε κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον οὐδεὶς ψευδῆ λέγει, ἀλλʼ εἴπερ λέγει Διονυσόδωρος, τἀληθῆ τε καὶ τὰ ὄντα λέγει. νὴ Δία,
ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος,
ὦ Εὐθύδημε· ἀλλὰ τὰ ὄντα μὲν τρόπον τινὰ λέγει, οὐ μέντοι ὥς γε ἔχει. πῶς λέγεις,
ἔφη ὁ Διονυσόδωρος,
ὦ Κτήσιππε;
When the orators speak in the assembly, do they do nothing?' — 'On the contrary, they do,' he said. — 'Therefore, if indeed they do, they also make?' — 'Yes.' — 'Therefore to speak is to do and to make?' — He agreed. — 'Therefore no one speaks things that do not exist,' he said, 'for he would already be making something; but you have agreed that it is impossible for anyone to make that which does not exist—so that according to your argument no one speaks falsely, but if Dionysodorus speaks, he speaks the truth and things that exist.' 'By Zeus, Euthydemus,' said Ctesippus, 'but he speaks of things that exist in a certain way, yet not indeed as they are.' 'How do you mean, Ctesippus?' said Dionysodorus.
εἰσὶν γάρ τινες οἳ λέγουσι τὰ πράγματα ὡς ἔχει; —
εἰσὶν μέντοι,
ἔφη,
οἱ καλοί τε κἀγαθοὶ καὶ οἱ τἀληθῆ λέγοντες. —
τί οὖν; ἦ δʼ ὅς·
'Are there indeed some who speak of things as they are?' — 'There certainly are,' he said, 'the beautiful and good, and those who speak the truth.' — 'What then?' he said.
τἀγαθὰ οὐκ εὖ, ἔφη, ἔχει, τὰ δὲ κακὰ κακῶς; —συνεχώρει. —
τοὺς δὲ καλούς τε καὶ ἀγαθοὺς ὁμολογεῖς λέγειν ὡς ἔχει τὰ πράγματα; —
ὁμολογῶ. —
κακῶς ἄρα,
ἔφη,
λέγουσιν, ὦ Κτήσιππε, οἱ ἀγαθοὶ τὰ κακά, εἴπερ ὡς ἔχει λέγουσιν. —
ναὶ μὰ Δία,
ἦ δʼ ὅς,
σφόδρα γε, τοὺς γοῦν κακοὺς ἀνθρώπους· ὧν σύ, ἐάν μοι πείθῃ, εὐλαβήσῃ εἶναι, ἵνα μή σε οἱ ἀγαθοὶ κακῶς λέγωσιν.
'Do not good things stand well, and bad things badly?' — He agreed. — 'And do you agree that the beautiful and good speak of things as they are?' — 'I agree.' — 'Therefore, Ctesippus,' he said, 'the good speak badly of bad things, if indeed they speak of them as they are.' — 'Yes, by Zeus,' he said, 'very much so, at least as far as bad men are concerned; whom you, if you take my advice, will be careful not to be, so that the good do not speak badly of you.
ὡς εὖ ἴσθʼ ὅτι κακῶς λέγουσιν οἱ ἀγαθοὶ τοὺς κακούς. —
καὶ τοὺς μεγάλους,
ἔφη ὁ Εὐθύδημος,
μεγάλως λέγουσι καὶ τοὺς θερμοὺς θερμῶς; —
μάλιστα δήπου,
ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος· τοὺς γοῦν ψυχροὺς ψυχρῶς λέγουσί τε καὶ φασὶν διαλέγεσθαι. —
σὺ μέν,
ἔφη ὁ Διονυσόδωρος,
λοιδορῇ, ὦ Κτήσιππε, λοιδορῇ.
For know well that the good speak badly of the bad.' — 'And do they speak of the great greatly,' said Euthydemus, 'and of the hot hotly?' — 'Most certainly,' said Ctesippus; 'at any rate, they speak of the cold coldly, and say that they converse coldly.' — 'You, Ctesippus,' said Dionysodorus, 'are abusive, you are abusive.'"