Humanitext Reader

Plato · Apology §25

The Horse Trainer Analogy and Rebuttal of Meletus

Passage 7 of 19 · Greek

Summary

Socrates exposes the absurdity of Meletus's claim that all Athenians educate the youth except him, using the analogy of a horse trainer. He further argues that no one would voluntarily corrupt their associates because doing so would bring harm to themselves, exposing the logical contradiction in Meletus's charge of intentional corruption.

§25τί δὲ δή;
Socrates: But what then?
οἱ δὲ ἀκροαταὶ βελτίους ποιοῦσιν ἢ οὔ;
Do the hearers make them better, or not?
καὶ οὗτοι.
Meletus: These also.
τί δέ, οἱ βουλευταί;
Socrates: And what of the councilors?
καὶ οἱ βουλευταί.
Meletus: The councilors too.
ἀλλʼ ἄρα, ὦ Μέλητε, μὴ οἱ ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ, οἱ ἐκκλησιασταί, διαφθείρουσι τοὺς νεωτέρους;
Socrates: But then, Meletus, do those in the assembly, the assemblymen, corrupt the youth?
ἢ κἀκεῖνοι βελτίους ποιοῦσιν ἅπαντες;
Or do they also, all of them, make them better?
κἀκεῖνοι.
Meletus: They also.
πάντες ἄρα, ὡς ἔοικεν, Ἀθηναῖοι καλοὺς κἀγαθοὺς ποιοῦσι πλὴν ἐμοῦ, ἐγὼ δὲ μόνος διαφθείρω.
Socrates: All the Athenians, then, as it seems, make them excellent except me, and I alone corrupt them.
οὕτω λέγεις;
Is this what you say?
πάνυ σφόδρα ταῦτα λέγω.
Meletus: I say this most emphatically.
πολλήν γέ μου κατέγνωκας δυστυχίαν. καί μοι ἀπόκριναι·
Socrates: You have judged me to be in great misfortune.
ἦ καὶ περὶ ἵππους οὕτω σοι δοκεῖ ἔχειν;
And answer me: does it seem to you to be so also with horses?
οἱ μὲν βελτίους ποιοῦντες αὐτοὺς πάντες ἄνθρωποι εἶναι, εἷς δέ τις ὁ διαφθείρων;
That those who make them better are all men, and that it is some one person who corrupts them?
ἢ τοὐναντίον τούτου πᾶν εἷς μέν τις ὁ βελτίους οἷός τʼ ὢν ποιεῖν ἢ πάνυ ὀλίγοι, οἱ ἱππικοί, οἱ δὲ πολλοὶ ἐάνπερ συνῶσι καὶ χρῶνται ἵπποις, διαφθείρουσιν;
Or is it the complete opposite of this, that some one person, or very few, namely the horse trainers, is able to make them better, while the many, if they associate with and use horses, corrupt them?
οὐχ οὕτως ἔχει, ὦ Μέλητε, καὶ περὶ ἵππων καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων ζῴων;
Is it not so, Meletus, both with horses and with all other animals?
πάντως δήπου, ἐάντε σὺ καὶ Ἄνυτος οὐ φῆτε ἐάντε φῆτε· πολλὴ γὰρ ἄν τις εὐδαιμονία εἴη περὶ τοὺς νέους εἰ εἷς μὲν μόνος αὐτοὺς διαφθείρει, οἱ δʼ ἄλλοι ὠφελοῦσιν.
Absolutely so, surely, whether you and Anytus deny it or admit it; for it would be a great piece of good fortune for the youth if only one person corrupts them, while the others benefit them.
ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ Μέλητε, ἱκανῶς ἐπιδείκνυσαι ὅτι οὐδεπώποτε ἐφρόντισας τῶν νέων, καὶ σαφῶς ἀποφαίνεις τὴν σαυτοῦ ἀμέλειαν, ὅτι οὐδέν σοι μεμέληκεν περὶ ὧν ἐμὲ εἰσάγεις.
But indeed, Meletus, you show sufficiently that you have never cared for the youth, and you clearly reveal your own carelessness, that you have cared nothing about the things for which you bring me here.
ἔτι δὲ ἡμῖν εἰπέ, ὦ πρὸς Διὸς Μέλητε, πότερόν ἐστιν οἰκεῖν ἄμεινον ἐν πολίταις χρηστοῖς ἢ πονηροῖς;
But tell us further, Meletus, by Zeus, is it better to live among good citizens or bad ones?
ὦ τάν, ἀπόκριναι· οὐδὲν γάρ τοι χαλεπὸν ἐρωτῶ.
Answer, my friend; for I am asking nothing difficult.
οὐχ οἱ μὲν πονηροὶ κακόν τι ἐργάζονται τοὺς ἀεὶ ἐγγυτάτω αὑτῶν ὄντας, οἱ δʼ ἀγαθοὶ ἀγαθόν τι;
Do not the bad always do some evil to those who are closest to them, and the good some good?
πάνυ γε.
Meletus: Yes, indeed.
ἔστιν οὖν ὅστις βούλεται ὑπὸ τῶν συνόντων βλάπτεσθαι μᾶλλον ἢ ὠφελεῖσθαι;
Socrates: Is there, then, anyone who wants to be harmed by his associates rather than benefited?
ἀποκρίνου, ὦ ἀγαθέ· καὶ γὰρ ὁ νόμος κελεύει ἀποκρίνεσθαι.
Answer, my good man; for the law also orders you to answer.
ἔσθʼ ὅστις βούλεται βλάπτεσθαι;
Is there anyone who wants to be harmed?
οὐ δῆτα.
Meletus: Not at all.
φέρε δή, πότερον ἐμὲ εἰσάγεις δεῦρο ὡς διαφθείροντα τοὺς νέους καὶ πονηροτέρους ποιοῦντα ἑκόντα ἢ ἄκοντα;
Socrates: Come then, do you bring me here as one who corrupts the youth and makes them worse voluntarily or involuntarily?
ἑκόντα ἔγωγε.
Meletus: Voluntarily, I say.
τί δῆτα, ὦ Μέλητε;
Socrates: What then, Meletus?
τοσοῦτον σὺ ἐμοῦ σοφώτερος εἶ τηλικούτου ὄντος τηλικόσδε ὤν, ὥστε σὺ μὲν ἔγνωκας ὅτι οἱ μὲν κακοὶ κακόν τι ἐργάζονται ἀεὶ τοὺς μάλιστα πλησίον ἑαυτῶν, οἱ δὲ ἀγαθοὶ ἀγαθόν, ἐγὼ δὲ δὴ εἰς τοσοῦτον ἀμαθίας ἥκω ὥστε καὶ τοῦτʼ ἀγνοῶ, ὅτι ἐάν τινα μοχθηρὸν ποιήσω τῶν συνόντων, κινδυνεύσω κακόν τι λαβεῖν ὑπʼ αὐτοῦ, ὥστε τοῦτο τὸ τοσοῦτον κακὸν ἑκὼν ποιῶ, ὡς φῂς σύ;
Are you so much wiser than I am at your age, while I am of this age, that you have known that the bad always do some evil to those who are closest to themselves, and the good some good, but I have come to such a depth of ignorance that I do not even know this, that if I make any of my associates bad, I shall run the risk of receiving some evil from him, so that I do this so great an evil voluntarily, as you say?

Notes

  1. 25aμὴ οἱ ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ — The particle μὴ with the indicative present (διαφθείρουσι) introduces a question expecting a negative answer or expressing apprehension ('surely they do not corrupt...').
  2. 25aπολλήν γέ μου κατέγνωκας δυστυχίαν — The verb καταγιγνώσκω takes the genitive of the person condemned (μου) and the accusative of the penalty or charge (πολλήν... δυστυχίαν).
  3. 25bοἱ μὲν βελτίους ποιοῦντες — The participle phrase οἱ μὲν βελτίους ποιοῦντες forms part of the accusative-and-infinitive construction dependent on δοκεῖ ἔχειν, with εἶναι being the infinitive and πάντες ἄνθρωποι acting as the predicate accusative.
  4. 25eἐγὼ δὲ δὴ εἰς τοσοῦτον ἀμαθίας ἥκω — The prepositional phrase εἰς τοσοῦτον followed by the partitive genitive ἀμαθίας expresses degree ('to such a point of ignorance'), correlating with the subsequent ὥστε clause to express result.

Cite this passage

Plato, Apology §25. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg002.humanitext-grc2:25

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