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Timaeus

§26-27

The Plan of Discourse and the Speaking Order of Timaeus and Critias

Critias proposes a plan to identify the ideal citizens described by Socrates with the historical Athenians of old, setting an order for the 'feast of discourse' where Timaeus will first speak on the generation of the cosmos and humans, followed by Critias on human history.

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§26

ΚΡ. οὐ μὴν ἐβουλήθην παραχρῆμα εἰπεῖν· διὰ χρόνου γὰρ οὐχ ἱκανῶς ἐμεμνήμην. ἐνενόησα οὖν ὅτι χρεὼν εἴη με πρὸς ἐμαυτὸν πρῶτον ἱκανῶς πάντα ἀναλαβόντα λέγειν οὕτως. ὅθεν ταχὺ συνωμολόγησά σοι τὰ ἐπιταχθέντα χθές, ἡγούμενος, ὅπερ ἐν ἅπασι τοῖς τοιοῖσδε μέγιστον ἔργον, λόγον τινὰ πρέποντα τοῖς βουλήμασιν ὑποθέσθαι, τούτου μετρίως ἡμᾶς εὐπορήσειν. οὕτω δή, καθάπερ ὅδʼ εἶπεν, χθές τε εὐθὺς ἐνθένδε ἀπιὼν πρὸς τούσδε ἀνέφερον αὐτὰ ἀναμιμνῃσκόμενος, ἀπελθών τε σχεδόν τι πάντα ἐπισκοπῶν τῆς νυκτὸς ἀνέλαβον. ὡς δή τοι, τὸ λεγόμενον, τὰ παίδων μαθήματα θαυμαστὸν ἔχει τι μνημεῖον. ἐγὼ γὰρ ἃ μὲν χθὲς ἤκουσα, οὐκ ἂν οἶδʼ εἰ δυναίμην1 ἅπαντα ἐν μνήμῃ πάλιν λαβεῖν· ταῦτα δὲ ἃ πάμπολυν χρόνον διακήκοα, παντάπασι θαυμάσαιμʼ ἂν εἴ τί με αὐτῶν διαπέφευγεν. ἦν μὲν οὖν μετὰ πολλῆς ἡδονῆς καὶ παιδιᾶς τότε ἀκουόμενα, καὶ τοῦ πρεσβύτου προθύμως με διδάσκοντος, ἅτʼ ἐμοῦ πολλάκις ἐπανερωτῶντος, ὥστε οἷον ἐγκαύματα ἀνεκπλύτου γραφῆς ἔμμονά μοι γέγονεν· καὶ δὴ καὶ τοῖσδε εὐθὺς ἔλεγον ἕωθεν αὐτὰ ταῦτα, ἵνα εὐποροῖεν λόγων μετʼ ἐμοῦ. νῦν οὖν, οὗπερ ἕνεκα πάντα ταῦτα εἴρηται, λέγειν εἰμὶ ἕτοιμος, ὦ Σώκρατες, μὴ μόνον ἐν κεφαλαίοις ἀλλʼ ὥσπερ ἤκουσα καθʼ ἕκαστον· τοὺς δὲ πολίτας καὶ τὴν πόλιν ἣν χθὲς ἡμῖν ὡς ἐν μύθῳ διῄεισθα σύ, νῦν μετενεγκόντες ἐπὶ τἀληθὲς δεῦρο θήσομεν ὡς ἐκείνην τήνδε οὖσαν, καὶ τοὺς πολίτας οὓς διενοοῦ φήσομεν ἐκείνους τοὺς ἀληθινοὺς εἶναι προγόνους ἡμῶν, οὓς ἔλεγεν ὁ ἱερεύς. πάντως ἁρμόσουσι καὶ οὐκ ἀπᾳσόμεθα λέγοντες αὐτοὺς εἶναι τοὺς ἐν τῷ τότε ὄντας χρόνῳ. κοινῇ δὲ διαλαμβάνοντες ἅπαντες πειρασόμεθα τὸ πρέπον εἰς δύναμιν οἷς ἐπέταξας ἀποδοῦναι. σκοπεῖν οὖν δὴ χρή, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰ κατὰ νοῦν ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν οὗτος, ἤ τινα ἔτʼ ἄλλον ἀντʼ αὐτοῦ ζητητέον.

​Critias: I did not, however, wish to speak immediately, because after so much time I did not remember it sufficiently. I realized, therefore, that it was necessary for me first to recover everything sufficiently by myself and only then to speak. Hence I quickly agreed to your instructions yesterday, thinking that we should be moderately well supplied for what is the greatest task in all such matters—namely, to lay down a fitting proposal for our intentions. Thus, as he said, yesterday as soon as I left here I began to relate these things to them, recalling them, and after I went away, by reviewing almost everything during the night, I recovered them. How indeed, as the saying goes, what we learn as children has a wonderful way of remaining in the memory! I do not know if I could recall in memory all that I heard yesterday, but as for these things which I heard a very long time ago, I should be completely amazed if any of them had escaped me. They were heard then with great pleasure and amusement, and since the old man was teaching me eagerly as I repeatedly questioned him, they have become fixed in me like the encaustic burnings of an indelible writing. And indeed, I was telling these very things to them early this morning, so that they might be well supplied with words along with me. Now, therefore, to come to the point for which all this has been said, I am ready to speak, Socrates, not only in summary but in detail, just as I heard it. And the citizens and the city which you described to us yesterday as if in a myth, we shall now transfer to reality and place here, assuming that that city is this one, and we shall say that the citizens you were conceiving are those true ancestors of ours whom the priest spoke of. They will harmonize in every way, and we shall not be out of tune in saying that they are the ones who existed at that time. Taking up our parts in common, we shall all try, as far as we can, to return a fitting response to your instructions. We must therefore consider, Socrates, whether this plan is to our mind, or whether we must still seek some other instead of it.

§27

ΣΩ. καὶ τίνʼ ἄν, ὦ Κριτία, μᾶλλον ἀντὶ τούτου μεταλάβοιμεν, ὃς τῇ τε παρούσῃ τῆς θεοῦ θυσίᾳ διὰ τὴν οἰκειότητʼ ἂν πρέποι μάλιστα, τό τε μὴ πλασθέντα μῦθον ἀλλʼ ἀληθινὸν λόγον εἶναι πάμμεγά που. πῶς γὰρ καὶ πόθεν ἄλλους ἀνευρήσομεν ἀφέμενοι τούτων; οὐκ ἔστιν, ἀλλʼ ἀγαθῇ τύχῃ χρὴ λέγειν μὲν ὑμᾶς, ἐμὲ δὲ ἀντὶ τῶν χθὲς λόγων νῦν ἡσυχίαν ἄγοντα ἀντακούειν. ΚΡ. σκόπει δὴ τὴν τῶν ξενίων σοι διάθεσιν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ᾗ διέθεμεν. ἔδοξεν γὰρ ἡμῖν Τίμαιον μέν, ἅτε ὄντα ἀστρονομικώτατον ἡμῶν καὶ περὶ φύσεως τοῦ παντὸς εἰδέναι μάλιστα ἔργον πεποιημένον, πρῶτον λέγειν ἀρχόμενον ἀπὸ τῆς τοῦ κόσμου γενέσεως, τελευτᾶν δὲ εἰς ἀνθρώπων φύσιν· ἐμὲ δὲ μετὰ τοῦτον, ὡς παρὰ μὲν τούτου δεδεγμένον2 ἀνθρώπους τῷ λόγῳ γεγονότας, παρὰ σοῦ δὲ πεπαιδευμένους διαφερόντως αὐτῶν τινας, κατὰ δὲ τὸν Σόλωνος λόγον τε καὶ νόμον εἰσαγαγόντα αὐτοὺς ὡς εἰς δικαστὰς ἡμᾶς3 ποιῆσαι πολίτας τῆς πόλεως τῆσδε ὡς ὄντας τοὺς τότε Ἀθηναίους, οὓς ἐμήνυσεν ἀφανεῖς ὄντας ἡ τῶν ἱερῶν γραμμάτων φήμη, τὰ λοιπὰ δὲ ὡς περὶ πολιτῶν καὶ Ἀθηναίων ὄντων ἤδη ποιεῖσθαι τοὺς λόγους. ΣΩ. τελέως τε καὶ λαμπρῶς ἔοικα ἀνταπολήψεσθαι τὴν τῶν λόγων ἑστίασιν. σὸν οὖν ἔργον λέγειν ἄν, ὦ Τίμαιε, τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο, ὡς ἔοικεν, εἴη καλέσαντα κατὰ νόμον θεούς. ΤΙ. ἀλλʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες, τοῦτό γε δὴ πάντες ὅσοι καὶ κατὰ βραχὺ σωφροσύνης μετέχουσιν, ἐπὶ παντὸς ὁρμῇ καὶ σμικροῦ καὶ μεγάλου πράγματος θεὸν ἀεί που καλοῦσιν· ἡμᾶς δὲ τοὺς περὶ τοῦ παντὸς λόγους ποιεῖσθαί πῃ μέλλοντας, ᾗ γέγονεν ἢ καὶ ἀγενές ἐστιν, εἰ μὴ παντάπασι παραλλάττομεν, ἀνάγκη θεούς τε καὶ θεὰς ἐπικαλουμένους εὔχεσθαι πάντα κατὰ νοῦν ἐκείνοις μὲν μάλιστα, ἑπομένως δὲ ἡμῖν εἰπεῖν. καὶ τὰ μὲν περὶ θεῶν ταύτῃ παρακεκλήσθω· τὸ δʼ ἡμέτερον παρακλητέον, ᾗ ῥᾷστʼ ἂν ὑμεῖς μὲν μάθοιτε, ἐγὼ δὲ ᾗ διανοοῦμαι μάλιστʼ ἂν περὶ τῶν προκειμένων ἐνδειξαίμην.

​Socrates: And what other, Critias, should we take in place of this one, which, because of its affinity, would be most appropriate for the present sacrifice to the goddess, and above all, because it is not a fabricated myth but a true history, which is of greatest importance? How and from where indeed shall we find others if we abandon these? It is not possible; rather, with good fortune, you must speak, while I, in return for yesterday’s words, must now keep quiet and listen in turn. Critias: Consider now, Socrates, the arrangement of our guest-gifts to you, how we have arranged them. For we decided that Timaeus, since he is the most astronomical of us and has made it his chief task to know about the nature of the universe, should speak first, beginning from the generation of the cosmos and ending with the nature of humans; and that I, after him, receiving from him the humans who have been created in speech, and from you some of them who have been exceptionally educated, and bringing them, in accordance with the account and law of Solon, as if before us as judges, should make them citizens of this city, on the ground that they are those Athenians of that time whom the report of the sacred writings revealed to have disappeared, and that we should make the rest of our speeches on the assumption that they are already our citizens and Athenians. Socrates: It seems I am going to receive a complete and splendid feast of words in return. It would be your task to speak next, Timaeus, as it seems, after having called upon the gods according to custom. Timaeus: But, Socrates, all who possess even a small share of wisdom always call upon a god at the beginning of any undertaking, whether small or great. And we who are about to make our speeches somehow concerning the universe—how it has generated or even if it is ungenerated—unless we are completely out of our minds, must pray to the gods and goddesses, invoking them that we may speak everything above all in accordance with their mind, and consequently in a way that is consistent for us. Let this be our invocation concerning the gods; but we must also invoke our own side, so that you may learn most easily, and I may best exhibit my thoughts on the proposed subjects.

Syntax notes3 items
  1. 26bοὐκ ἂν οἶδʼ εἰ δυναίμην

    The particle ἄν goes not with οἶδα but with the optative δυναίμην in the indirect question clause, expressing potentiality ('whether I should be able'). This is an example of hyperbaton.

  2. 27aδεδεγμένον

    The perfect middle/passive participle of δέχομαι (accusative masculine singular). In the accusative-and-infinitive construction (ἐμὲ δὲ ... ποιῆσαι) dependent on the impersonal ἔδοξεν in the preceding clause, it agrees with the accusative pronoun ἐμέ, the subject of the infinitive. It is not an accusative absolute.

  3. 27bὡς εἰς δικαστὰς ἡμᾶς

    The particle ὡς used with the preposition εἰς marks destination or intention ('as if before...'). ἡμᾶς (us) is in the accusative governed by εἰς and stands in apposition to δικαστάς (judges), meaning 'as if before us as judges'.

Translated by Gemini 3.5 Flash (published 2026-05-22)urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg031.humanitext-grc2:26-27