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Republic

§10.603-10.604

Poetic Imitation and the Conflict of Reason and Grief

Socrates argues that imitation, especially in poetry, appeals not to the rational and best part of the soul, but to its inferior, emotional part, illustrating this through the conflict between human grief and rational self-control.

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§10.603

τὸ παρὰ τὰ μέτρα ἄρα δοξάζον1 τῆς ψυχῆς τῷ κατὰ τὰ μέτρα οὐκ ἂν εἴη ταὐτόν. οὐ γὰρ οὖν. ἀλλὰ μὴν τὸ μέτρῳ γε καὶ λογισμῷ πιστεῦον βέλτιστον ἂν εἴη τῆς ψυχῆς. τί μήν; τὸ ἄρα τούτῳ ἐναντιούμενον τῶν φαύλων ἄν τι εἴη ἐν ἡμῖν. ἀνάγκη. τοῦτο τοίνυν διομολογήσασθαι βουλόμενος ἔλεγον ὅτι ἡ γραφικὴ καὶ ὅλως ἡ μιμητικὴ πόρρω μὲν τῆς ἀληθείας ὂν τὸ αὑτῆς ἔργον ἀπεργάζεται, πόρρω δʼ αὖ φρονήσεως ὄντι2 τῷ ἐν ἡμῖν προσομιλεῖ τε καὶ ἑταίρα καὶ φίλη ἐστὶν ἐπʼ οὐδενὶ ὑγιεῖ οὐδʼ ἀληθεῖ. παντάπασιν, ἦ δʼ ὅς. φαύλη ἄρα φαύλῳ συγγιγνομένη φαῦλα γεννᾷ ἡ μιμητική. ἔοικεν. πότερον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἡ κατὰ τὴν ὄψιν μόνον, ἢ καὶ κατὰ τὴν ἀκοήν, ἣν δὴ ποίησιν ὀνομάζομεν; εἰκός γʼ, ἔφη, καὶ ταύτην. μὴ τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τῷ εἰκότι μόνον πιστεύσωμεν ἐκ τῆς γραφικῆς, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐπʼ αὐτὸ αὖ ἔλθωμεν τῆς διανοίας τοῦτο ᾧ προσομιλεῖ ἡ τῆς ποιήσεως μιμητική, καὶ ἴδωμεν φαῦλον ἢ σπουδαῖόν ἐστιν. ἀλλὰ χρή. ὧδε δὴ προθώμεθα· πράττοντας, φαμέν, ἀνθρώπους μιμεῖται ἡ μιμητικὴ βιαίους ἢ ἑκουσίας πράξεις, καὶ ἐκ τοῦ πράττειν ἢ εὖ οἰομένους ἢ κακῶς πεπραγέναι, καὶ ἐν τούτοις δὴ πᾶσιν ἢ λυπουμένους ἢ χαίροντας. μή τι ἄλλο ἦν παρὰ ταῦτα; οὐδέν. ἆρʼ οὖν ἐν ἅπασι τούτοις ὁμονοητικῶς ἄνθρωπος διάκειται; ἢ ὥσπερ κατὰ τὴν ὄψιν ἐστασίαζεν καὶ ἐναντίας εἶχεν ἐν ἑαυτῷ δόξας ἅμα περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν, οὕτω καὶ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσι στασιάζει τε καὶ μάχεται αὐτὸς αὑτῷ; ἀναμιμνῄσκομαι δὲ ὅτι τοῦτό γε νῦν οὐδὲν δεῖ ἡμᾶς διομολογεῖσθαι· ἐν γὰρ τοῖς ἄνω λόγοις ἱκανῶς πάντα ταῦτα διωμολογησάμεθα, ὅτι μυρίων τοιούτων ἐναντιωμάτων ἅμα γιγνομένων ἡ ψυχὴ γέμει ἡμῶν. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη. ὀρθῶς γάρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· ἀλλʼ ὃ τότε ἀπελίπομεν, νῦν μοι δοκεῖ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι διεξελθεῖν. τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη. ἀνήρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐπιεικὴς τοιᾶσδε τύχης μετασχών, ὑὸν ἀπολέσας ἤ τι ἄλλο ὧν περὶ πλείστου ποιεῖται, ἐλέγομέν που καὶ τότε ὅτι ῥᾷστα οἴσει τῶν ἄλλων. πάνυ γε. νῦν δέ γε τόδʼ ἐπισκεψώμεθα, πότερον οὐδὲν ἀχθέσεται, ἢ τοῦτο μὲν ἀδύνατον, μετριάσει δέ πως πρὸς λύπην. οὕτω μᾶλλον, ἔφη, τό γε ἀληθές.

Therefore, the part of the soul that opines contrary to the measurements would not be the same as that which opines in accordance with the measurements. Indeed not. But surely, the part that trusts in measurement and calculation would be the best part of the soul. Of course. Therefore, that which opposes this part would be some inferior part in us. Necessarily. This, then, is what I wanted to reach agreement on when I said that painting and imitation as a whole produce their work far from the truth, and associate with that part in us which is far from wisdom, being its companion and friend for no healthy or true purpose. Absolutely, he said. Imitation, then, being inferior itself and associating with an inferior part, generates inferior things. It seems so. Is it, I said, only the imitation concerned with sight, or also that concerned with hearing, which we call poetry? It is likely, he said, that this is also the case. Let us not, then, I said, rely only on the resemblance derived from painting, but let us also go to that very part of the intellect with which the imitation of poetry associates, and see whether it is inferior or serious. Indeed, we must. Let us put it this way: imitation, we say, imitates human beings performing actions, whether forced or voluntary, and as a result of these actions, believing themselves to have done well or ill, and in all these circumstances, either grieving or rejoicing. Was there anything else besides these? Nothing. Is a human being, then, in all these situations, in a state of inner harmony? Or, just as in the case of sight he was in a state of faction and had opposite opinions in himself at the same time about the same things, does he also in his actions experience faction and fight with himself? But I remember that there is no need for us to reach agreement on this now; for in our earlier discussions we sufficiently agreed on all these things—that our soul is full of a myriad of such contradictions occurring at the same time. Correctly, he said. Yes, correctly, I said; but what we left out then, now seems to me necessary to go through. What kind of thing? he said. A decent man, I said, who experiences such a fortune as to lose a son or something else he values most, we said, I believe, even then that he will bear it more easily than others. Certainly. But now let us examine this: will he feel no grief at all, or is that impossible, and will he instead keep his grief within bounds in some way? The latter is more likely, he said, that is indeed the truth.

§10.604

τόδε νῦν μοι περὶ αὐτοῦ εἰπέ· πότερον μᾶλλον αὐτὸν οἴει τῇ λύπῃ μαχεῖσθαί τε καὶ ἀντιτείνειν, ὅταν ὁρᾶται ὑπὸ τῶν ὁμοίων, ἢ ὅταν ἐν ἐρημίᾳ μόνος αὐτὸς καθʼ αὑτὸν γίγνηται; πολύ που, ἔφη, διοίσει, ὅταν ὁρᾶται. μονωθεὶς δέ γε οἶμαι πολλὰ μὲν τολμήσει φθέγξασθαι, ἃ εἴ τις αὐτοῦ ἀκούοι αἰσχύνοιτʼ ἄν, πολλὰ δὲ ποιήσει, ἃ οὐκ ἂν δέξαιτό τινα ἰδεῖν δρῶντα. οὕτως ἔχει, ἔφη. οὐκοῦν τὸ μὲν ἀντιτείνειν διακελευόμενον λόγος καὶ νόμος ἐστίν, τὸ δὲ ἕλκον ἐπὶ τὰς λύπας αὐτὸ τὸ πάθος; ἀληθῆ. ἐναντίας δὲ ἀγωγῆς γιγνομένης ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ περὶ τὸ αὐτὸ ἅμα, δύο φαμὲν αὐτὼ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι. πῶς δʼ οὔ; οὐκοῦν τὸ μὲν ἕτερον τῷ νόμῳ ἕτοιμον πείθεσθαι, ᾗ ὁ νόμος ἐξηγεῖται; πῶς; λέγει που ὁ νόμος ὅτι κάλλιστον ὅτι μάλιστα ἡσυχίαν ἄγειν ἐν ταῖς συμφοραῖς καὶ μὴ ἀγανακτεῖν, ὡς οὔτε δήλου ὄντος τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ τε καὶ κακοῦ τῶν τοιούτων, οὔτε εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν οὐδὲν προβαῖνον τῷ χαλεπῶς φέροντι, οὔτε τι τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων ἄξιον ὂν μεγάλης σπουδῆς, ὅ τε δεῖ ἐν αὐτοῖς ὅτι τάχιστα παραγίγνεσθαι ἡμῖν, τούτῳ ἐμποδὼν γιγνόμενον τὸ λυπεῖσθαι. τίνι, ἦ δʼ ὅς, λέγεις; τῷ βουλεύεσθαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, περὶ τὸ γεγονὸς καὶ ὥσπερ ἐν πτώσει κύβων πρὸς τὰ πεπτωκότα τίθεσθαι τὰ αὑτοῦ πράγματα,3 ὅπῃ ὁ λόγος αἱρεῖ βέλτιστʼ ἂν ἔχειν, ἀλλὰ μὴ προσπταίσαντας καθάπερ παῖδας ἐχομένους τοῦ πληγέντος ἐν τῷ βοᾶν διατρίβειν, ἀλλʼ ἀεὶ ἐθίζειν τὴν ψυχὴν ὅτι τάχιστα γίγνεσθαι πρὸς τὸ ἰᾶσθαί τε καὶ ἐπανορθοῦν τὸ πεσόν τε καὶ νοσῆσαν, ἰατρικῇ θρηνῳδίαν ἀφανίζοντα. ὀρθότατα γοῦν ἄν τις, ἔφη, πρὸς τὰς τύχας οὕτω προσφέροιτο. οὐκοῦν, φαμέν, τὸ μὲν βέλτιστον τούτῳ τῷ λογισμῷ ἐθέλει ἕπεσθαι. δῆλον δή. τὸ δὲ πρὸς τὰς ἀναμνήσεις τε τοῦ πάθους καὶ πρὸς τοὺς ὀδυρμοὺς ἄγον καὶ ἀπλήστως ἔχον αὐτῶν ἆρʼ οὐκ ἀλόγιστόν τε φήσομεν εἶναι καὶ ἀργὸν καὶ δειλίας φίλον; φήσομεν μὲν οὖν. οὐκοῦν τὸ μὲν πολλὴν μίμησιν καὶ ποικίλην ἔχει, τὸ ἀγανακτητικόν, τὸ δὲ φρόνιμόν τε καὶ ἡσύχιον ἦθος, παραπλήσιον ὂν ἀεὶ αὐτὸ αὑτῷ, οὔτε ῥᾴδιον μιμήσασθαι οὔτε μιμουμένου εὐπετὲς καταμαθεῖν, ἄλλως τε καὶ πανηγύρει καὶ παντοδαποῖς ἀνθρώποις εἰς θέατρα συλλεγομένοις· ἀλλοτρίου γάρ που πάθους ἡ μίμησις αὐτοῖς γίγνεται.

Now tell me this about him: do you think he will fight and resist his grief more when he is seen by his peers, or when he is alone by himself in solitude? It will make a great difference, I suppose, he said, when he is seen. But when left alone, I think he will venture to utter many things which he would be ashamed for anyone to hear, and will do many things which he would not allow anyone to see him doing. That is how it is, he said. Now, is not that which commands him to resist reason and law, while that which drags him toward grief is the affection itself? True. And when opposite impulses occur in a human being at the same time concerning the same thing, we say that there must be two distinct parts in him. How could it be otherwise? Is not one of them, then, ready to obey the law, in the way the law guides? How? The law says, I suppose, that it is best to keep as quiet as possible in misfortunes and not to be vexed, since the good and bad in such things are not clear, and no progress is made for the future by taking things hard, and nothing in human affairs is worthy of great concern, and grieving stands in the way of that which ought to come to our assistance in these situations as quickly as possible. What is it you mean? he said. Deliberation, I said, about what has happened, and, as in a fall of dice, to settle one’s affairs in accordance with the way the dice have fallen, as reason dictates would be best; and not, like children who have stumbled, to waste time in crying out while holding the hurt part, but always to accustom the soul to turn as quickly as possible to healing and restoring what has fallen and is diseased, banishing lamentation by medical art. At any rate, one would face fortunes most correctly in this way, he said. Then we say that the best part is willing to follow this calculation. Clearly so. But that which leads to the recollections of the suffering and to lamentations, and is insatiable for them, shall we not say that it is irrational, idle, and a friend of cowardice? We certainly shall. Does not, then, the rebellious character admit of much and varied imitation, whereas the wise and quiet character, being always nearly equal to itself, is neither easy to imitate nor, when imitated, easy to understand, especially for a festive assembly and all sorts of human beings gathered in theaters? For the imitation is of an affection alien to them.

Syntax notes3 items
  1. 603aτὸ παρὰ τὰ μέτρα ἄρα δοξάζον

    Refers to 'the part that opines contrary to the measurements,' representing the sensory/emotional aspect of the soul deceived by optical illusions. This stands in opposition to the rational part ('the best part') which trusts in measurement and calculation, serving as the basis for dividing the soul into distinct parts based on conflicting impulses.

  2. 603aπόρρω μὲν τῆς ἀληθείας ὂν ... πόρρω δʼ αὖ φρονήσεως ὄντι

    The former participle ὂν (neuter singular accusative) modifies the work of imitation (τὸ αὑτῆς ἔργον), while the latter ὄντι (masculine/neuter singular dative) modifies the irrational part of the soul within us (τῷ ἐν ἡμῖν). This precise case distinction clearly contrasts the dual distance: that the product of imitation is far from truth, and the part of the soul it associates with is far from wisdom.

  3. 604cὥσπερ ἐν πτώσει κύβων πρὸς τὰ πεπτωκότα τίθεσθαι τὰ αὑτοῦ πράγματα

    A metaphorical expression derived from dice playing: 'to settle one's affairs in accordance with the way the dice have fallen.' The prepositional phrase πρὸς τὰ πεπτωκότα modifies the infinitive τίθεσθαι (to arrange/dispose), vividly illustrating the attitude of practical reason, which dictates logical rearrangement of one's life as reason (λόγος) deems best, rather than emotional overreaction.

Translated by Gemini 3.5 Flash (published 2026-05-23) · Revision history (1, latest 2026-09-21)
  • 2026-09-21 AI review — note 1
urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg030.humanitext-grc2:10.603-10.604