Gorgias

​GORGIAS: Therefore, those who taught are not wicked, nor is the art either to be blamed or wicked because of this, but rather, I think, those who do not use it rightly. And the very same argument applies also to rhetoric. For the rhetorician is capable of speaking against all people and about every subject, so as to be more persuasive among the crowds, in short, about whatever he wishes; but not for this reason should he any more strip the physicians of their reputation—just because he could do this—nor the other craftsmen, but he must use rhetoric justly, just as one must use competitive skill. But I think that if someone, having become a rhetorician, then does wrong with this power and art, one must not hate and banish the teacher from the cities. For that teacher handed it down for just use, but the pupil uses it in the opposite way. Therefore, it is just to hate, banish, and kill the one who does not use it rightly, but not the teacher. SOCRATES: Gorgias, I think that you too have experience with many discussions and have observed in them the following sort of thing: that people cannot easily, on whatever subjects they undertake to discuss, define their terms to one another, learn and teach themselves, and so dissolve their gatherings, but if they dispute about something and one says the other is not speaking rightly or clearly, they grow angry and think that the other speaks out of envy of them, striving for victory rather than seeking what is proposed in the discussion; and some indeed in the end part in the most shameful way, having been insulted and having said and heard such things about themselves that even the bystanders are vexed on their own account, that they deemed such men worthy of being listened to. Why on earth do I say these things? Because now you seem to me to speak things not entirely consistent or harmonious with what you said at first about rhetoric; I am afraid, therefore, to refute you, lest you suppose that I speak not striving for victory to make the matter clear, but against you.

SOCRATES: I, then, if you also are of those men of whom I myself am, would gladly go on questioning you; but if not, I would let it be. And of what kind am I? Of those who would gladly be refuted if I say anything not true, and would gladly refute if anyone should say anything not true, yet not less gladly refuted than refuting; for I consider this to be a greater good, by as much as it is a greater good to be released oneself from the greatest evil than to release another. For I think there is no evil so great for a human being as a false opinion about the things which happen to be the subject of our present discussion. If, then, you also say that you are such a person, let us discuss; but if it seems that we should let it be, let us now bid it farewell and dissolve the discussion. GORGIAS: But I indeed claim, Socrates, that I myself am such a person as you have described; however, perhaps we ought to have considered also the interest of those present. For indeed, for a long time, even before you came, I have given many demonstrations to those present, and now perhaps we shall spin out the discussion far, if we go on discussing. We must therefore consider their interest as well, lest we are detaining some of them who wish to do something else. CHAEREPHON: You yourselves hear the clamor of these men, Gorgias and Socrates, who wish to hear if you say anything; as for myself, at any rate, may I never have so much business that, leaving such discussions spoken in such a way, it should become of greater importance for me to do something else. CALLICLES: By the gods, Chaerephon, indeed I myself, though I have already been present at many discussions, do not know if I have ever been so pleased as I am now; so that, for my part, even if you wish to discuss the whole day, you will do me a favor. SOCRATES: Indeed, Callicles, there is nothing to prevent on my part, if Gorgias is willing. GORGIAS: It becomes shameful henceforth, Socrates, for me at least not to be willing, having myself announced that anyone may ask what he wishes. But if it seems good to these men, go on discussing and ask whatever you wish. SOCRATES: Listen then, Gorgias, to what I marvel at in the things said by you; for perhaps, though you speak rightly, I do not understand rightly. Do you say that you are able to make someone a rhetorician, if he wishes to learn from you? GORGIAS: Yes.