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Geography

§12.8.5-12.8.7

Origins of Carians and Lycians and Confusion of Names

The author discusses the origins of the Carians and Lycians with reference to Cretan colonization and Herodotus, confirms that the fertility of Asia Minor attracted various invaders, and addresses the confusion in literary sources regarding the term 'Troy', emphasizing that geography must focus on describing the present state.

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§12.8.5

καὶ οἱ Κᾶρες δὲ νησιῶται πρότερον ὄντες καὶ Λέλεγες, ὥς φασιν, ἠπειρῶται γεγόνασι, προσλαβόντων Κρητῶν,1 οἳ καὶ τὴν Μίλητον ἔκτισαν ἐκ τῆς Κρητικῆς Μιλήτου Σαρπηδόνα λαβόντες κτίστην· καὶ τοὺς Τερμίλας κατῴκισαν ἐν τῇ νῦν Λυκίᾳ· τούτους δʼ ἀγαγεῖν ἐκ Κρήτης ἀποίκους Σαρπηδόνα, Μίνω καὶ Ῥαδαμάνθυος ἀδελφὸν ὄντα, καὶ ὀνομάσαι Τερμίλας τοὺς πρότερον Μιλύας, ὥς φησιν Ἡρόδοτος, ἔτι δὲ πρότερον Σολύμους, ἐπελθόντα δὲ τὸν Πανδίονος Λύκον ἀφʼ ἑαυτοῦ προσαγορεῦσαι τοὺς αὐτοὺς Λυκίους. οὗτος μὲν οὖν ὁ λόγος ἀποφαίνει τοὺς αὐτοὺς Σολύμους τε καὶ Λυκίους, ὁ δὲ ποιητὴς χωρίζει· Βελλεροφόντης γοῦν ὡρμημένος ἐκ τῆς Λυκίας "Σολύμοισι μαχέσσατο κυδαλίμοισι." Πείσανδρόν τε ὡσαύτως υἱὸν αὐτοῦ Ἄρης ὥς φησι "μαρνάμενον Σολύμοισι κατέκτανε." καὶ τὸν Σαρπηδόνα δὲ ἐπιχώριόν τινα λέγει.

​The Carians also, who were formerly islanders and, as they say, Leleges, became continentals with the assistance of the Cretans, who also founded Miletus, having taken Sarpedon from the Cretan Miletus as founder; and they settled the Termilae in what is now Lycia; and they say Sarpedon, who was a brother of Minos and Rhadamanthys, led these people as colonists from Crete, and named those who were formerly Milyae, and still earlier Solymi, as Termilae, as Herodotus says, but when Lycus, the son of Pandion, came, he named these same people Lycians after himself. This account, then, represents the Solymi and the Lycians as the same, but the poet distinguishes them; Bellerophon, at any rate, having set out from Lycia, “”fought with the glorious Solymi.”” And likewise Ares, as the poet says, slew his son Peisander, “”fighting with the Solymi.”” And he speaks of Sarpedon also as a native of the place.

§12.8.6

ἀλλὰ τό γε ἆθλον προκεῖσθαι κοινὸν τὴν ἀρετὴν τῆς χώρας2 ἧς λέγω τοῖς ἰσχύουσιν ἐκ πολλῶν βεβαιοῦται [καὶ πρὸ τῶν Τρωικῶν] καὶ μετὰ τὰ Τρωικά· ὅπου καὶ Ἀμαζόνες κατεθάρρησαν αὐτῆς, ἐφʼ ἃς ὅ τε Πρίαμος στρατεῦσαι λέγεται καὶ ὁ Βελλεροφόντης· πόλεις τε παλαιαὶ ὁμολογοῦνται ἐπώνυμοι αὐτῶν· ἐν δὲ τῷ Ἰλιακῷ πεδίῳ κολώνη τις ἔστιν "ἣν ἤτοι ἄνδρες Βατίειαν κικλήσκουσιν, ἀθάνατοι δέ τε σῆμα πολυσκάρθμοιο Μυρίνης," ἣν ἱστοροῦσι μίαν εἶναι τῶν Ἀμαζόνων ἐκ τοῦ ἐπιθέτου τεκμαιρόμενοι· εὐσκάρθμους γὰρ ἵππους λέγεσθαι διὰ τὸ τάχος· κἀκείνην οὖν πολύσκαρθμον διὰ τὸ ἀπὸ τῆς ἡνιοχείας τάχος· καὶ ἡ Μύρινα οὖν ἐπώνυμος ταύτης λέγεται. καὶ αἱ ἐγγὺς δὲ νῆσοι ταῦτʼ ἔπαθον διὰ τὴν ἀρετήν, ὧν Ῥόδος καὶ Κῶς3 ὅτι πρὸ τῶν Τρωικῶν ἤδη ὑφʼ Ἑλλήνων ᾠκοῦντο καὶ ὑφʼ Ὁμήρου σαφῶς ἐκμαρτυρεῖται.

​But that the fertility of the country of which I speak was proposed as a common prize to those who were strong is confirmed by many things even after the Trojan War; where even the Amazons made bold against it, against whom both Priam and Bellerophon are said to have campaigned; and ancient cities are agreed to be named after them; and in the Trojan plain there is a certain hill “”which men indeed call Batieia, but the immortals the tomb of the swift-bounding Myrina,”” whom they relate to be one of the Amazons, inferring this from the epithet; for they say that horses are called “euskarthmoi” because of their speed; and she, therefore, was called “polyskarthmos” because of her speed in charioteering; and Myrina, therefore, is said to be named after her. And the neighboring islands also suffered the same fate because of their fertility, of which Rhodes and Cos are clearly testified by Homer to have been already inhabited by Greeks before the Trojan War.

§12.8.7

μετὰ δὲ τὰ Τρωικὰ αἵ τε τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἀποικίαι καὶ αἱ Τρηρῶν καὶ αἱ Κιμμερίων ἔφοδοι καὶ Λυδῶν καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα Περσῶν καὶ Μακεδόνων τό [τε] τελευταῖον Γαλατῶν ἐτάραξαν πάντα καὶ συνέχεαν. γέγονε δὲ ἡ ἀσάφεια οὐ διὰ τὰς μεταβολὰς μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ διὰ τὰς τῶν συγγραφέων ἀνομολογίας περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν οὐ τὰ αὐτὰ λεγόντων, τοὺς μὲν Τρῶας καλούντων4 Φρύγας καθάπερ οἱ τραγικοί, τοὺς δὲ Λυκίους Κᾶρας καὶ ἄλλους οὕτως. οἱ δὲ Τρῶες οὕτως ἐκ μικρῶν αὐξηθέντες ὥστε καὶ βασιλεῖς βασιλέων εἶναι, παρέσχον καὶ τῷ ποιητῇ λόγον τίνα χρὴ καλεῖν Τροίαν, καὶ τοῖς ἐξηγουμένοις ἐκεῖνον. λέγει μὲν γὰρ καὶ κοινῶς ἅπαντας Τρῶας τοὺς συμπολεμήσαντας αὐτοῖς, ὥσπερ καὶ Δαναοὺς καὶ Ἀχαιοὺς τοὺς ἐναντίους· ἀλλʼ οὐ δήπου Τροίαν καὶ τὴν Παφλαγονίαν ἐροῦμεν· νὴ Δία, οὐδὲ τὴν Καρίαν ἢ τὴν ὅμορον αὐτῇ Λυκίαν. λέγω δʼ ὅταν οὕτω φῇ "Τρῶες μὲν κλαγγῇ τʼ ἐνοπῇ τʼ ἴσαν," ἐκ δὲ τῶν ἐναντίων "οἱ δʼ ἄρʼ ἴσαν σιγῇ μένεα πνείοντες Ἀχαιοί." καὶ ἄλλως δὲ λέγει πολλαχῶς. ὅμως δὲ καίπερ τοιούτων ὄντων πειρατέον διαιτᾶν ἕκαστα εἰς δύναμιν· ὅ τι δʼ ἂν διαφύγῃ τῆς παλαιᾶς ἱστορίας, τοῦτο μὲν ἐατέον (οὐ γὰρ ἐνταῦθα τὸ τῆς γεωγραφίας ἔργον), τὰ δὲ νῦν ὄντα λεκτέον.

​But after the Trojan War, the colonies of the Greeks, the incursions of the Treres and the Cimmerians, and of the Lydians, and after these of the Persians and Macedonians, and finally of the Galatians, disturbed and confused everything. And the obscurity arose not only because of the changes, but also because of the disagreements of the writers, who do not say the same things about the same subjects, calling the Trojans Phrygians, as do the tragic poets, and the Lycians Carians, and others in like manner. And the Trojans, having risen from such small beginnings as to become even kings of kings, gave occasion both to the poet and to those who explain him to discuss what ought to be called Troy. For he speaks of all those who fought with them collectively as Trojans, just as he calls their opponents Danaans and Achaeans; but we shall surely not call Paphlagonia also Troy; by Zeus, nor Caria, nor its neighbor Lycia. I mean when he says: “”The Trojans indeed went with clamor and cry,”” but of their opponents: “”And the Achaeans went in silence, breathing strength.”” And he speaks in many other ways besides. Nevertheless, although things are so, we must try to distinguish each detail as far as possible; and whatever escapes our ancient history must be left alone (for the task of geography is not here), but we must speak of things as they now are.

Syntax notes4 items
  1. 12.8.5προσλαβόντων Κρητῶν

    Genitive absolute. Based on the transitive verb προσλαμβάνω (to take to oneself as an ally or helper), it is translated as "with the assistance of the Cretans" or "the Cretans having taken them in addition."

  2. 12.8.6τό γε ἆθλον προκεῖσθαι κοινὸν τὴν ἀρετὴν τῆς χώρας

    The articular infinitive clause τό ... προκεῖσθαι forms the subject of the main passive verb βεβαιοῦται. The subject accusative of the infinitive προκεῖσθαι is τὴν ἀρετὴν τῆς χώρας (the fertility of the country), while ἆθλον κοινὸν (a common prize) functions predicatively.

  3. 12.8.6ὧν Ῥόδος καὶ Κῶς

    The relative pronoun ὧν is in the partitive genitive, referring back to αἱ ἐγγὺς νῆσοι. The following ὅτι clause acts as the subject of the verb ἐκμαρτυρεῖται, with Rhodes and Cos (Ῥόδος καὶ Κῶς), which should be the subject of that ὅτι clause, being proleptically attracted or placed in apposition.

  4. 12.8.7καλούντων

    A genitive participle modifying the preceding genitive noun τῶν συγγραφέων. The following accusatives (τοὺς μὲν... τοὺς δὲ...) represent specific examples of confusion in naming by the writers.

Translated by Gemini 3.5 Flash (published 2026-05-25)urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0099.tlg001.humanitext-grc2:12.8.5-12.8.7