- Source
- Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.
- Translation
- AI-generated (gemini-3.5-flash) — machine translation; may contain errors
- Languages
- 日本語 · English · 简体中文 · 한국어
- CTS URN
- urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg023.humanitext-grc2:453
- Generated
- Humanitext Reader · reader.humanitext.ai · 2026-10-27
Socrates establishes with Gorgias that rhetoric is a producer of persuasion, and points out that other arts like arithmetic also persuade, leading to the need to define the specific kind of persuasion unique to rhetoric.
ΣΩ. νῦν μοι δοκεῖς δηλῶσαι, ὦ Γοργία, ἐγγύτατα τὴν ῥητορικὴν ἥντινα τέχνην ἡγῇ εἶναι,1 καὶ εἴ τι ἐγὼ συνίημι, λέγεις ὅτι πειθοῦς δημιουργός ἐστιν ἡ ῥητορική, καὶ ἡ πραγματεία αὐτῆς ἅπασα καὶ τὸ κεφάλαιον εἰς τοῦτο τελευτᾷ· ἢ ἔχεις τι λέγειν ἐπὶ πλέον τὴν ῥητορικὴν δύνασθαι ἢ πειθὼ τοῖς ἀκούουσιν ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ποιεῖν; ΓΟΡ. οὐδαμῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλά μοι δοκεῖς ἱκανῶς ὁρίζεσθαι· ἔστιν γὰρ τοῦτο τὸ κεφάλαιον αὐτῆς. ΣΩ. ἄκουσον δή, ὦ Γοργία. ἐγὼ γὰρ εὖ ἴσθʼ ὅτι, ὡς ἐμαυτὸν πείθω, εἴπερ τις ἄλλος ἄλλῳ διαλέγεται βουλόμενος εἰδέναι αὐτὸ τοῦτο περὶ ὅτου ὁ λόγος ἐστίν, καὶ ἐμὲ εἶναι τούτων ἕνα·2 ἀξιῶ δὲ καὶ σέ. ΓΟΡ. τί οὖν δή, ὦ Σώκρατες; ΣΩ. ἐγὼ ἐρῶ νῦν. ἐγὼ τὴν ἀπὸ τῆς ῥητορικῆς πειθώ,3 ἥτις ποτʼ ἐστὶν ἣν σὺ λέγεις καὶ περὶ ὧντινων πραγμάτων ἐστὶν πειθώ, σαφῶς μὲν εὖ ἴσθʼ ὅτι οὐκ οἶδα, οὐ μὴν ἀλλʼ ὑποπτεύω γε ἣν οἶμαί σε λέγειν καὶ περὶ ὧν· οὐδὲν μέντοι ἧττον ἐρήσομαί σε τίνα ποτὲ λέγεις τὴν πειθὼ τὴν ἀπὸ τῆς ῥητορικῆς καὶ περὶ τίνων αὐτὴν εἶναι. τοῦ ἕνεκα δὴ αὐτὸς ὑποπτεύων σὲ ἐρήσομαι, ἀλλʼ οὐκ αὐτὸς λέγω; οὐ σοῦ ἕνεκα ἀλλὰ τοῦ λόγου, ἵνα οὕτω προΐῃ ὡς μάλιστʼ ἂν ἡμῖν καταφανὲς ποιοῖ4 περὶ ὅτου λέγεται. σκόπει γὰρ εἴ σοι δοκῶ δικαίως ἀνερωτᾶν σε· ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ ἐτύγχανόν σε ἐρωτῶν τίς ἐστιν τῶν ζωγράφων Ζεῦξις, εἴ μοι εἶπες ὅτι ὁ τὰ ζῷα γράφων, ἆρʼ οὐκ ἂν δικαίως σε ἠρόμην ὁ τὰ ποῖα τῶν ζῴων γράφων καὶ ποῦ; ΓΟΡ. πάνυ γε. ΣΩ. ἆρα διὰ τοῦτο, ὅτι καὶ ἄλλοι εἰσὶ ζωγράφοι γράφοντες ἄλλα πολλὰ ζῷα; ΓΟΡ. ναί. ΣΩ. εἰ δέ γε μηδεὶς ἄλλος ἢ Ζεῦξις ἔγραφε, καλῶς ἄν σοι ἀπεκέκριτο; ΓΟΡ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ; ΣΩ. ἴθι δὴ καὶ περὶ τῆς ῥητορικῆς εἰπέ· πότερόν σοι δοκεῖ πειθὼ ποιεῖν ἡ ῥητορικὴ μόνη ἢ καὶ ἄλλαι τέχναι; λέγω δὲ τὸ τοιόνδε· ὅστις διδάσκει ὁτιοῦν πρᾶγμα, πότερον ὃ διδάσκει πείθει ἢ οὔ; ΓΟΡ. οὐ δῆτα, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλὰ πάντων μάλιστα πείθει. ΣΩ. πάλιν δὴ ἐπὶ τῶν αὐτῶν τεχνῶν λέγωμεν ὧνπερ νυνδή· ἡ ἀριθμητικὴ οὐ διδάσκει ἡμᾶς ὅσα ἐστὶν τὰ τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ, καὶ ὁ ἀριθμητικὸς ἄνθρωπος; ΓΟΡ. πάνυ γε. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ πείθει; ΓΟΡ. ναί. ΣΩ. πειθοῦς ἄρα δημιουργός ἐστιν καὶ ἡ ἀριθμητική; ΓΟΡ. φαίνεται.
SOCRATES: Now, Gorgias, you seem to me to have revealed as closely as possible what kind of art you consider rhetoric to be. And if I understand anything at all, you are saying that rhetoric is a producer of persuasion, and that its whole activity and its sum total end in this. Or do you have anything to say that rhetoric can do more than to produce persuasion in the soul of the listeners? GORGIAS: Not at all, Socrates; rather, you seem to me to define it sufficiently. For this is indeed its sum total. SOCRATES: Listen then, Gorgias. For be well assured that, as I persuade myself, if anyone else ever dialogues with another wishing to know the very thing about which the speech is, I believe that I too am one of these. And I think you are too. GORGIAS: What do you mean by this, Socrates? SOCRATES: I will tell you now. As for the persuasion that comes from rhetoric, whatever it is that you mean and about whatever matters it is persuasion, be well assured that I do not know it clearly; nevertheless, I do suspect which one I think you mean and about what. Nonetheless, I shall ask you what on earth you mean by the persuasion from rhetoric and about what things it is. For what purpose, then, do I ask you when I myself suspect it, instead of saying it myself? It is not for your sake, but for the sake of the argument, so that it may proceed in such a way as to make what is being talked about most clear to us. For consider if I seem to be justified in questioning you: just as if I happened to be asking you which of the painters Zeuxis is, and if you told me that he is the one who paints animals, would I not have been justified in asking you what kind of animals he paints, and where? GORGIAS: Certainly. SOCRATES: Is it for this reason, because there are also other painters who paint many other animals? GORGIAS: Yes. SOCRATES: But if no one else but Zeuxis painted them, would your answer have been fine? GORGIAS: How could it not? SOCRATES: Come then, speak also about rhetoric: does it seem to you that rhetoric alone produces persuasion, or do other arts do so as well? I mean something like this: does whoever teaches any matter persuade what he teaches, or not? GORGIAS: Not at all, Socrates; rather, he persuades most of all. SOCRATES: Let us speak again about the same arts that we were just speaking of. Does not arithmetic, and the arithmetician, teach us how many things belong to number? GORGIAS: Certainly. SOCRATES: Therefore, does it also persuade? GORGIAS: Yes. SOCRATES: So arithmetic is also a producer of persuasion? GORGIAS: It appears so.
- 453τὴν ῥητορικὴν ἥντινα τέχνην ἡγῇ εἶναι
The noun τὴν ῥητορικήν is anticipated (prolepsis) from the indirect question clause ἥντινα... and placed in the accusative near the beginning of the sentence, emphasizing "rhetoric" as the primary topic of the investigation.
- 453aἐγὼ γὰρ εὖ ἴσθʼ ὅτι ... ἐμὲ εἶναι τούτων ἕνα
The phrase εὖ ἴσθʼ ὅτι functions effectively as a parenthetical clause. Consequently, the syntax shifts from the initial nominative ἐγώ to an accusative-with-infinitive construction (ἐμὲ εἶναι), dependent on the mental state of believing or persuading implied in the context.
- 453bτὴν ἀπὸ τῆς ῥητορικῆς πειθώ
The accusative phrase τὴν ... πειθώ is placed at the very beginning of the sentence but is separated from its governing verb οὐκ οἶδα by a long intervening relative clause (hyperbaton). This serves to focus immediate attention on the concept of "persuasion" which is to be defined.
- 453cἵνα οὕτω προΐῃ ὡς μάλιστʼ ἂν ἡμῖν καταφανὲς ποιοῖ
Inside the purpose clause introduced by ἵνα, the subjunctive προΐῃ (expressing the objective progress of the dialogue) is coordinated with the potential optative with ἄν (ἂν ... ποιοῖ, expressing a subjective, soft expectation of clarity).