- Source
- Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.
- Translation
- AI-generated (gemini-3.5-flash) — machine translation; may contain errors
- Languages
- 日本語 · English · 简体中文 · 한국어
- CTS URN
- urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg021.humanitext-grc2:298
- Generated
- Humanitext Reader · reader.humanitext.ai · 2026-10-27
Dionysodorus and Euthydemus employ sophistry to argue that having a different father means having no father, and extend this to claim that their father is the father of all humans and animals. Furthermore, Dionysodorus fallaciously deduces that since Ctesippus's dog is a father, the dog is Ctesippus's father, meaning Ctesippus beats his own father.
ΣΩ. πάνυ γʼ, ἔφην· ὁ μέν γε ἐμός, ὁ δὲ ἐκείνου.— οὐκοῦν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἕτερος ἦν Χαιρέδημος τοῦ πατρός; —τοὐμοῦ γʼ, ἔφην ἐγώ.— ἆρʼ οὖν πατὴρ ἦν ἕτερος ὢν πατρός; ἢ σὺ εἶ ὁ αὐτὸς τῷ λίθῳ; —δέδοικα μὲν ἔγωγʼ, ἔφην, μὴ φανῶ ὑπὸ σοῦ ὁ αὐτός· οὐ μέντοι μοι δοκῶ.— οὐκοῦν ἕτερος εἶ, ἔφη, τοῦ λίθου; —ἕτερος μέντοι.— ἄλλο τι οὖν ἕτερος, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ὢν λίθου οὐ λίθος εἶ; καὶ ἕτερος ὢν χρυσοῦ οὐ χρυσὸς εἶ; —ἔστι ταῦτα.— οὔκουν καὶ ὁ Χαιρέδημος, ἔφη, ἕτερος ὢν πατρὸς πατήρ ἐστιν.1 —ἔοικεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐ πατὴρ εἶναι. εἰ γὰρ δήπου, ἔφη, πατήρ ἐστιν ὁ Χαιρέδημος, ὑπολαβὼν ὁ Εὐθύδημος, πάλιν αὖ ὁ Σωφρονίσκος ἕτερος ὢν πατρὸς οὐ πατήρ ἐστιν, ὥστε σύ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀπάτωρ εἶ. καὶ ὁ Κτήσιππος ἐκδεξάμενος, ὁ δὲ ὑμέτερος, ἔφη, αὖ πατὴρ οὐ ταὐτὰ ταῦτα πέπονθεν; ἕτερός ἐστιν τοὐμοῦ πατρός; — πολλοῦ γʼ, ἔφη, δεῖ, ὁ Εὐθύδημος.— ἀλλά, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ὁ αὐτός; — ὁ αὐτὸς μέντοι. — οὐκ ἂν συμβουλοίμην. ἀλλὰ πότερον, ὦ Εὐθύδημε, ἐμὸς μόνον ἐστὶ πατὴρ ἢ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἀνθρώπων; — καὶ τῶν ἄλλων, ἔφη· ἢ οἴει τὸν αὐτὸν πατέρα ὄντα οὐ πατέρα εἶναι; — ὤιμην δῆτα, ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος.— τί δέ; ἦ δʼ ὅς· χρυσὸν ὄντα μὴ χρυσὸν εἶναι; ἢ ἄνθρωπον ὄντα μὴ ἄνθρωπον; — μὴ γάρ, ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος, ὦ Εὐθύδημε, τὸ λεγόμενον, οὐ λίνον λίνῳ συνάπτεις·2 δεινὸν γὰρ λέγεις πρᾶγμα εἰ ὁ σὸς πατὴρ πάντων ἐστὶν πατήρ. — ἀλλʼ ἔστιν, ἔφη.— πότερον ἀνθρώπων; ἦ δʼ ὃς ὁ Κτήσιππος, ἢ καὶ ἵππων καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πάντων ζῴων; πάντων, ἔφη.— ἦ καὶ μήτηρ ἡ μήτηρ; — καὶ ἡ μήτηρ γε. — καὶ τῶν ἐχίνων ἄρα, ἔφη, ἡ σὴ μήτηρ μήτηρ ἐστὶ τῶν θαλαττίων. — καὶ ἡ σή γʼ, ἔφη.— καὶ σὺ ἄρα ἀδελφὸς εἶ τῶν κωβιῶν καὶ κυναρίων καὶ χοιριδίων. — καὶ γὰρ σύ, ἔφη.— κάπρος ἄρα σοι πατήρ ἐστι καὶ κύων. — καὶ γὰρ σοί, ἔφη. αὐτίκα δέ γε, ἦ δʼ ὃς ὁ Διονυσόδωρος, ἄν μοι ἀποκρίνῃ, ὦ Κτήσιππε, ὁμολογήσεις ταῦτα. εἰπὲ γάρ μοι, ἔστι σοι κύων; — καὶ μάλα πονηρός, ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος.— ἔστιν οὖν αὐτῷ κυνίδια; — καὶ μάλʼ, ἔφη, ἕτερα τοιαῦτα. — οὐκοῦν πατήρ ἐστιν αὐτῶν ὁ κύων; — ἔγωγέ τοι εἶδον, ἔφη, αὐτὸν ὀχεύοντα τὴν κύνα. — τί οὖν; οὐ σός ἐστιν ὁ κύων; — πάνυ γʼ, ἔφη.— οὐκοῦν πατὴρ ὢν σός ἐστιν,3 ὥστε σὸς πατὴρ γίγνεται ὁ κύων καὶ σὺ κυναρίων ἀδελφός; καὶ αὖθις ταχὺ ὑπολαβὼν ὁ Διονυσόδωρος, ἵνα μὴ πρότερόν τι εἴποι ὁ Κτήσιππος, καὶ ἔτι γέ μοι μικρόν, ἔφη, ἀπόκριναι· τύπτεις τὸν κύνα τοῦτον; —καὶ ὁ Κτήσιππος γελάσας, νὴ τοὺς θεούς, ἔφη· οὐ γὰρ δύναμαι σέ. — οὐκοῦν τὸν σαυτοῦ πατέρα, ἔφη, τύπτεις;
SOCRATES: ‘Certainly,’ I said, ‘the one is mine, and the other is his.’ ‘Therefore,’ he said, ‘was Chaeredemus other than the father?’ ‘—Mine, at any rate,’ I said. ‘Was he then a father while being other than a father? Or are you the same as the stone?’ ‘—I indeed fear,’ I said, ‘lest I should appear the same [as the stone] by you; however, I do not think I am.’ ‘Therefore you are other,’ he said, ‘than the stone?’ ‘—Other indeed.’ ‘Is it then any other than that, being other than a stone, you are not a stone? And being other than gold, you are not gold?’ ‘—That is so.’ ‘Therefore also Chaeredemus,’ he said, ‘being other than a father, is not a father.’ ‘—It seems,’ I said, ‘that he is not a father.’ ‘For if indeed,’ said Euthydemus, interrupting, ‘Chaeredemus is a father, then on the other hand Sophroniscus, being other than a father, is not a father, so that you, Socrates, are fatherless.’ And Ctesippus, taking it up, said, ‘And has your father in turn not suffered these same things? Is he other than my father?’ ‘—Far from it,’ said Euthydemus. ‘—But,’ he said, ‘is he the same?’ ‘—The same indeed.’ ‘—I should not wish that. But, O Euthydemus, is he my father only, or also of the other humans?’ ‘—Of the others too,’ he said; ‘or do you think that being the same father he is not a father?’ ‘—Indeed I did think so,’ said Ctesippus. ‘—What then?’ he said; ‘that being gold it is not gold? Or being a human it is not a human?’ ‘—Do not,’ said Ctesippus, ‘O Euthydemus, as the saying goes, connect flax with flax; for you say a terrible thing if your father is the father of all.’ ‘—But he is,’ he said. ‘—Whether of humans,’ said Ctesippus, ‘or also of horses and of all other animals?’ ’—Of all,’ he said. ‘—Is your mother also a mother [in the same way]?’ ‘—The mother too, indeed.’ ‘—Therefore of sea urchins,’ he said, ‘your mother is the mother.’ ‘—And yours too, indeed,’ he said. ‘—And you, then, are a brother of gudgeons and puppies and piglets.’ ‘—For you are too,’ he said. ‘—A boar, then, is a father to you, and a dog.’ ‘—For they are to you too,’ he said. ‘And straightway,’ said Dionysodorus, ‘if you answer me, O Ctesippus, you will agree to these things. For tell me, do you have a dog?’ ‘—Yes, and a very bad one,’ said Ctesippus. ‘—Has he then puppies?’ ‘—Yes, indeed, other ones just like him,’ he said. ‘—Therefore the dog is their father?’ ‘—I indeed saw him,’ he said, ‘mounting the female dog.’ ‘—What then? Is the dog not yours?’ ‘—Certainly,’ he said. ‘—Therefore, being a father, he is yours, so that the dog becomes your father and you a brother of puppies?’ And again Dionysodorus, quickly interrupting, so that Ctesippus should not say something first, ‘And answer me still a little thing,’ he said, ‘do you beat this dog?’ And Ctesippus, laughing, said, ‘Yes, by the gods; for I cannot beat you.’ ‘—Therefore,’ he said, ‘do you beat your own father?’
- 298aοὔκουν καὶ ὁ Χαιρέδημος, ἔφη, ἕτερος ὢν πατρὸς πατήρ ἐστιν.
οὔκουν introduces a negative conclusion ('therefore ... not'). ἕτερος ὢν πατρὸς is a causal or concessive participle phrase ('since/although he is other than a father'). Thus, the sentence means 'Therefore Chaeredemus too... is not a father.'
- 298cμὴ γάρ, ἔφη ὁ Κτήσιππος, ὦ Εὐθύδημε, τὸ λεγόμενον, οὐ λίνον λίνῳ συνάπτεις
τὸ λεγόμενον is an accusative of apposition used parenthetically ('as the saying goes'). μὴ γάρ expresses a strong deprecation or prevention ('Don't indeed...'). οὐ λίνον λίνῳ συνάπτεις ('you are not joining flax to flax') is a proverbial expression meaning either joining inappropriate things together or making a useless/tautological connection.
- 298eοὐκοῦν πατὴρ ὢν σός ἐστιν
σός functions double-sidedly here: on one hand, 'yours' (possessing the dog), and on the other, 'your' (modifier of 'father'). The participle πατὴρ ὢν ('being a father') combined with σός ἐστιν ('he is yours') is fallaciously turned into 'he is your father' by the sophists.